Sigflanagan6
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Fly in the ointment.
For Bobbymo!!!!
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on May 24, 2011 23:31:30 GMT -5
You guys realize Kantur is Vitaly Patapotenko v2.0....right? I mean I get busy with life and you guys have a namesake-esque basketball conversation.
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Post by sirpaul on May 24, 2011 23:34:57 GMT -5
Uh who? what? where did you come from?
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Sigflanagan6
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Fly in the ointment.
For Bobbymo!!!!
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on May 24, 2011 23:39:01 GMT -5
Here is how you have to look at this draft. It's not about just the #1 overall pick and who is the best player there. You have to, and the Cavs are, looking at what is the best player combination you can get out of these 2 picks. So there you have to figure is it Irving/Kanter/other euro, or is it Williams/Walker or Knight. Some are saying that Knights upside is equal to, if not higher than Irvings. I'm not saying I agree, but I don't think the gap between the two is that large. In Williams I think you are getting a player that at worst case is Danny Granger, best case is Paul Pierce type. He had to play the 4 for Arizona, he can play the 3 in the NBA just fine. Positions in the NBA have changed so much over the years. I remember people saying Durant didn't have a position in the NBA a few years ago, how has that worked out?
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Sigflanagan6
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Fly in the ointment.
For Bobbymo!!!!
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on May 24, 2011 23:46:21 GMT -5
Also, rumor has it that we are sending the #4, trade exception, and Hickson to Utah for the #3 Paul Milsap and Gordon Hayward. Makes sense for both teams, as this would free up cash for Utah for the epic free agent class of 2012. Plus, with the addition of Jefferson last year, Millsap really is a very expensive bench player. They move down a spot, still get one of the points they covet, we get a nice PF, a young SG with upside, and whomever we wanted at 4.
Edit to add: This would only use a portion of the T.E. Another move most likely involving Verejao would follow. He was signed to keep Lebron, and because he is a complimentary player necessary to win a championship. Some team will take the cap relief and shed itself of a large long term contract. cough Brandon Roy cough
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tsaw
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Misses Ohio
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Post by tsaw on May 25, 2011 16:47:16 GMT -5
Here is how you have to look at this draft. It's not about just the #1 overall pick and who is the best player there. You have to, and the Cavs are, looking at what is the best player combination you can get out of these 2 picks. So there you have to figure is it Irving/Kanter/other euro, or is it Williams/Walker or Knight. Some are saying that Knights upside is equal to, if not higher than Irvings. I'm not saying I agree, but I don't think the gap between the two is that large. In Williams I think you are getting a player that at worst case is Danny Granger, best case is Paul Pierce type. He had to play the 4 for Arizona, he can play the 3 in the NBA just fine. Positions in the NBA have changed so much over the years. I remember people saying Durant didn't have a position in the NBA a few years ago, how has that worked out? Disagree about how you look at the draft. You can't worry about the 4 pick and packaging, ect. First and foremost you take the player who has the best shot at being a franchise cornerstone. The NBA is about stars and to most analysts there is one potential franchise player in this draft: Kyrie Irving. A healthy Irving might be Chris Paul 2.0 and I don't see how you can pass that up. Then there is the matter that this is now a PGs' league and Brandon Knight has not proven he has PG skills. Ditto Kemba Walker. Derrick Williams is a fine player but he's not a complete 3. Carmelo, LeBron, Joe Johnson, Deng and Pierce will be tough guards for him in the East. I like Williams, a lot. But I see him as a 4, and that's not a need. I'll take Irving (unless he fails a physical) and I'll take Kanter or Biyombo or look for a wing in a tradedown.
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Sigflanagan6
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Fly in the ointment.
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on May 25, 2011 17:24:32 GMT -5
The toe thing scares the shit out of me with Irving. He has said that he is going to have to wear a splint going forward. That's not a good thing. It is a huge red flag for me. Toe injuries, more so than knees, or ankles, can linger and linger and linger.
Another thing about Williams, I'm not worried about him having a "position". This isn't your fathers NBA guys. The days of guys being slotted into a position based on height and build is a thing of the past. Centers and Shooting guards are smaller, power forwards are taller and play further and further from the rim. I mean really, you tell me, what position is Lebron? What position is Durant, Dirk, Dwade? 20 years ago Dirk, Durant, Wade because of their size would have been forced to play out of position. Now if you have a player who can put the ball in the hole, and I feel Williams can and will do that, you build your offense around that guys strength and not worry so much about position. I watched Miami play the entire 4th and OT last night without a traditional PG. I remember Orlando beating us with a 7 ft small forward and a 6'10" pf who played around the 3 point line. Point being, I'm not concerned about Williams position, he is a forward, that's good enough for me.
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Post by sigsdad on May 25, 2011 19:10:24 GMT -5
My Son & I are on the same page here. First, if you get ONE "franchise" player, how long will he be here? We have a shot at bringing in a few QUALITY players, IF we play our cards right. I can tell you from experience that any foot injury is nothing to overlook. It took me 1 1/2 years & I wasn't playing a grueling NBA schedule. Granted, the kid has shown a lot (in what, 11 games?) & he's already half way into the Hall of Fame? Nothing against Irving, but I just don't think taking him is a slam dunk, I think you have to look further than one pick, & Kanter is a HUGE question mark. Bottom line: The Cavs will do what they will & we'll just have to wait to see what that may be. Mike....Ol' Dad
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Post by sirpaul on May 25, 2011 19:53:11 GMT -5
As long as Chris Grant is right I don't care who they take.
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tsaw
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Post by tsaw on May 26, 2011 14:48:22 GMT -5
My Son & I are on the same page here. First, if you get ONE "franchise" player, how long will he be here? We have a shot at bringing in a few QUALITY players, IF we play our cards right. I can tell you from experience that any foot injury is nothing to overlook. It took me 1 1/2 years & I wasn't playing a grueling NBA schedule. Granted, the kid has shown a lot (in what, 11 games?) & he's already half way into the Hall of Fame? Nothing against Irving, but I just don't think taking him is a slam dunk, I think you have to look further than one pick, & Kanter is a HUGE question mark. Bottom line: The Cavs will do what they will & we'll just have to wait to see what that may be. Mike....Ol' Dad Respectfully disagree on some points. I still think you have take the guy who has the ability to be a franchise player especially when the prospect plays the PG position. I don't think you can worry about best player combos. The NBA draft is a different animal than the NFL -- the NFL is where trade downs are often the best option. In the NBA, you have got to have stars. What do I mean by franchise player? A guy who has the ability to add 20-plus wins to a team. The Wall Street Journal had a piece last year showing which players accounted for most wins created according to a formula. I believe there were 10 or so that accounted for 20-plus according to their formula and LeBron was No. 1 at 35 wins. (A number which seems accurate looking at the Cavs record). Chris Paul was top 10 and was in the 20-25 win range. Irving has Chris Paul upside (so they say). *I also don't think you can go into the draft worrying that you're No. 1 overall pick will leave in four years -- maybe he will or maybe the new CBA will have a type of "franchise tag" preventing your top player from leaving. Or maybe he'll actually want to stay. Even without a franchise tag, Cleveland had LeBron for seven years ... maybe he's still here if we had added a second all-star type. *As for Irving's toe, I agree it is a concern. But unless some damning evidence comes out I'm still taking him. Irving did avoid surgery and played pretty well in the NCAA Tournament. I think he was Duke's leading scorer in the NCAAs. While there are some interesting PGs available at 4 ... there are still going to be some interesting Euro bigs (Kanter, Biyombo) and some underrated wings in Burks and Singleton. Check out what this NBA scout had to say about prospects including Irving from earlier this year sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/02/14/nba.scouting.finch/index.html Do I have any reservations (Irving) he doesn't play this year? Not even a little bit. He's that good. He'll still be a top three pick if he comes out. This is a point guards' league, it's not a centers' league anymore. He's a good athlete, not a great athlete, so he'll never be electric like John Wall or Derrick Rose, but Chris Paul is not electric in that way either.
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Mikey33
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1 fuck left to give
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Post by Mikey33 on May 26, 2011 15:05:07 GMT -5
Wait, so now we're not supposed to draft a potential superstar cause he may leave in a few years?
So what is the alternative, draft mediocre to good players who will be happy to be in the league so they'll never leave us?
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Post by sirpaul on May 26, 2011 18:07:03 GMT -5
Irving IMO is such a easy pick that this shouldn't be a conversation.
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TommyDee
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Post by TommyDee on Feb 9, 2017 14:38:47 GMT -5
Here's a fun bump. Sig and his Dad were leaning towards taking Williams over Kyrie.
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