tsaw
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Post by tsaw on Aug 1, 2011 15:12:08 GMT -5
The trade for Ubaldo makes sense if you believe the Indians' window of opportunity from 2011-13 is better than the 2014-16 window. While I think they gave up a helluva lot for Ubaldo (more than they received for Lee and Sabathia) I do think it was the right move when you consider this ... Free agents after 2013: Choo, Cabrera, Sizemore (if '12 option is exercised) Free agents after 2014: Masterson, Chris Perez, Ubaldo ('14 player option) Key guys singed through 2016: Santana, Brantley, Carrasco, Tomlin, Kipnis, Chisenhall. See all salary commitments here : spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tKIJtE0J83GL-6XiTzecEBw&output=html Knowing Chisenhall and Kipnis and Santana will be improving in the next couple years while Cabrera, Choo, Masterson are still around, 2013-13 probably marks the best window of opportunity. Moreover, I'd have rather had Pedro Martinez back in 1996 than what the Red Sox gave up for him (Pavano, Armas Jr.) I'd rather have Randy Johnson than what the Mariners got for him (Freddy Garcia) I'd rather have C.C. Sabathia for two months (as a contender) than Matt LaPorta and Michael Brantley. I'd rather have Cliff Lee than Carlos Carrasco. Or Cliff Lee than Justin Smoak. It seems most deals for No. 1 pitchers favor the team receiving them. As a counter, there is always the Bartolo Colon trade. But aces are gold in the postseason. The Indians are all in and it's refreshing to see. Risk = Reward. |
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TommyDee
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Post by TommyDee on Aug 1, 2011 15:28:14 GMT -5
And this is coming from a dude who LOVES prospects. Trust me on that one.
I'm kind of amazed at the fan reaction to this trade. Seems about split - half love it, half hate it. The Indians finally did something, a bold move, going for it, and they still get nailed by half the audience. Maybe they just can't win with this fanbase.
Jimenez is young, under contract, and a front of the rotation guy now. The team is in position to go for it, this year. They could get Choo back in as little as 2 weeks. They might not get this chance again for 5 years. Why not go get Jimenez & pair him with Masterson & Tomlin?
I've just seen too many pitching prospects fail to get hung up on what White or Pomeranz might become. If they did it for a guy who was not under contract or 33 yrs old I could understand the bitching.
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Post by sirpaul on Aug 1, 2011 15:32:07 GMT -5
The trade is growing on me...it relies now on Jimenez. I don't care how White or Pom do as long as he does his job. Good point on moving on to the future and pointing out contracts. What we got coming is some winning or more selling.
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Post by sirpaul on Aug 1, 2011 15:33:06 GMT -5
Tommy I don't think UJ is the Pedro of '96-97
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TommyDee
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Post by TommyDee on Aug 1, 2011 15:41:08 GMT -5
Tommy I don't think UJ is the Pedro of '96-97 And I don't think I'm tsaw |
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Post by sirpaul on Aug 1, 2011 15:43:18 GMT -5
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tsaw
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Post by tsaw on Aug 1, 2011 15:47:44 GMT -5
Tommy I don't think UJ is the Pedro of '96-97 Yeah, he's not but who is? ... I was just looking for historic examples in trading for front-line guys Ubaldo is probably more similar to Sabathia Ubaldo-Masterson-Tomlin sounds pretty good for the next couple of years ... (and I am a guy who loves prospects) |
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Post by sirpaul on Aug 1, 2011 16:05:01 GMT -5
It does not to mention we still have Carrasco, Huff, McCallister, Carmona and Gomez. That's not including who we got in AA and below.
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tsaw
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Post by tsaw on Aug 1, 2011 21:38:29 GMT -5
It does not to mention we still have Carrasco, Huff, McCallister, Carmona and Gomez. That's not including who we got in AA and below. I love Carrasco's stuff. Good three-pitch mix. I just worry about what's between his ears. He seems to get rattled and lose confidence easily. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 23:08:07 GMT -5
He's a #3 pitcher at best with a friendly contract.
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TommyDee
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Post by TommyDee on Aug 2, 2011 7:27:49 GMT -5
You could make the same statement about Carmona about what's between the ears.
Perhaps the pressure of being a 3/4 now instead of a 1 will let Carmona be the pitcher he can be.
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Post by sirpaul on Aug 2, 2011 9:59:42 GMT -5
So they have the rotation set as Masterson, Jimenez, Tomlin, Carmona and Huff or Carrasco.
Could be great...could be disaster.
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tsaw
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Post by tsaw on Aug 3, 2011 12:07:13 GMT -5
You could make the same statement about Carmona about what's between the ears. Perhaps the pressure of being a 3/4 now instead of a 1 will let Carmona be the pitcher he can be. There's not much I like about Carmona. He has sloppy mechanics, fragile pysche, and he has just one above average pitch in his sinking fastball. But he might be OK as a back-end rotation guy. I like Carrasco a lot more. More pitches and can more consistently throw strikes. |
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Post by sirpaul on Aug 3, 2011 12:10:08 GMT -5
I still have a hard time believing we couldn't have subbed Carmora or White or Pom.
Although I love this trade more after yesterday when I realized Alex White is a prick and I hope he gets the Adam Miller treatment to his finger.
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tsaw
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Post by tsaw on Aug 3, 2011 12:24:49 GMT -5
I still have a hard time believing we couldn't have subbed Carmora or White or Pom. Although I love this trade more after yesterday when I realized Alex White is a prick and I hope he gets the Adam Miller treatment to his finger. Rockies would have no interest in Carmona. I sure wouldn't. White and Pom will both under club control through 2016 and should provide much more upside than Carmona. Just curious, why is Alex White a prick? |
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Post by sirpaul on Aug 3, 2011 12:35:42 GMT -5
He dogged CTown on Twitter yesterday then tried to defend himself after the onslaught attack. Disappointed I liked the kid. It was a very TO moment
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 20:50:46 GMT -5
I like this Sipp kid a lot. Great slider.
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Post by sirpaul on Aug 3, 2011 20:55:12 GMT -5
Sipp reminds me alot of Assenmacher with more velocity.
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TommyDee
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Post by TommyDee on Aug 4, 2011 7:16:17 GMT -5
Speaking of windows, this years is slowly closing.
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Post by sirpaul on Aug 4, 2011 7:44:10 GMT -5
Yeah they are in a complete free fall right now.
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