TommyDee
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 13:03:06 GMT -5
From our friends at MTAF: www.morethanafan.net/2013/07/29/tackling-the-tribes-attendance-problem/I'm gonna take one quote from it and run from there: "Do you really mean to tell me that with the Indians winning and the prices dropping to my projected numbers that Progressive Field wouldn’t be selling out every single night?" Me - I honestly don't think it would sellout nightly or regularly. It's not a baseball town, plain and simple. Yes the economy hurts & Browns camp is free but how do you explain what the Cavs get away with charging for tickets? The Indians have the 4th lowest average ticket price in baseball. They are in contention. It's July. And nobody is going. Why can't they go back to the days of the sellout streak? Because that perfect storm of no Browns, Cavs sucking, a good economy, a new ballpark & winning team for the 1st time in 30 years are never going to happen at the same time again. It was the thing to do on a summer night, whether you were a sports fan or not - "I have Indians tickets for tonights game!" IMO, we can keep asking why. We can say it's because they don't sign free agents. Then when they do sign free agents we can say they have to win into the summer. Then when they do win into summer we can say they have to do it consistently. We can blame money or we can look at the reality of it. The city has good sports fans. And following Twitter during a game shows you there are plenty that care. But plain and simple - Cleveland is not a baseball town. |
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Sigflanagan6
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 13:37:47 GMT -5
It had a chance to be a baseball town though. Dolan has alienated so much of the fambase though. I personally feel that the entire front office has continually insulted the intelligence of fans. They make empty promises and just bone headed moves. I think most fans understood having to trade players, but what do they have to show for those trades? Brantley? You traded two Cy Young winners and got one decent player in return. In ten years they've developed one quality player through the minors.
Now, why do we as fans hold them accountable and not the other two teams? It's all pr. The Indians pr department is the worst of the 3 professional sports in Cleveland. They don't engage fans on any level.
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 13:45:35 GMT -5
It had a chance to be a baseball town though. Dolan has alienated so much of the fambase though. I personally feel that the entire front office has continually insulted the intelligence of fans. They make empty promises and just bone headed moves. I think most fans understood having to trade players, but what do they have to show for those trades? Brantley? You traded two Cy Young winners and got one decent player in return. In ten years they've developed one quality player through the minors. Now, why do we as fans hold them accountable and not the other two teams? It's all pr. The Indians pr department is the worst of the 3 professional sports in Cleveland. They don't engage fans on any level. No way I am going to defend the trades they have made. Pretty piss poor returns. And their drafting & development were horrible. Seems to be getting better. That said, when do the fans need to look in the mirror? It's late July. They ARE contending. They did spend this winter. The Browns & Cavs haven't done anything right (besides land Lebron in the lottery) yet attendance isn't an issue. Is it money like this linked blog said? Is it PR like you say? I guess it could be but I'm not sure I see where the other two are that much better. I generally just think it's a city that leans towards the cold weather teams. |
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 13:58:46 GMT -5
And I'd even just make it easier & pull the Cavs out of it: Cleveland is a football town. It's okay that in in general that's the case. Just don't make it out to be something more than that IMO.
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 14:03:02 GMT -5
I think it's a little of both with the game day experience mixed in. Going to a Browns game is an all day event, baseball can't match that. Going to a Cavs game is a blast in large part because of the showmanship during every stoppage. I guess that has to do with fan interaction. The Indians actually have some pretty great promotions but do an awful job marketing them. I find out about their promotions from other Twitter users, not the Indians.
You know what I heard the most about in recent memories from the Indians? Snow days. Something that has nothing to do with the team. And their marketing strategy until this season was to remind people how good they were 15 years ago.
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 14:06:58 GMT -5
And I'd even just make it easier & pull the Cavs out of it: Cleveland is a football town. It's okay that in in general that's the case. Just don't make it out to be something more than that IMO. It is a football town but the two teams only compete for customers a handful of times a year. The Browns host 8 meaningful games a year. Are you telling me that people that go to one game a year save all year for that and can't afford Indians games? Not buying it. Tommy you are in sales. You have to create customers and opportunities. The Indians fail in doing that. |
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 14:09:09 GMT -5
So you honestly think if their PR was better their attendance wouldn't be as bad? I just think that's another excuse. If it was better, could it help some? Sure. But does it raise it from below 20,000 to low 30,000s?
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 14:12:36 GMT -5
And I'd even just make it easier & pull the Cavs out of it: Cleveland is a football town. It's okay that in in general that's the case. Just don't make it out to be something more than that IMO. It is a football town but the two teams only compete for customers a handful of times a year. The Browns host 8 meaningful games a year. Are you telling me that people that go to one game a year save all year for that and can't afford Indians games? Not buying it. Tommy you are in sales. You have to create customers and opportunities. The Indians fail in doing that. No, I'm not using money. I am saying that along with everything else is an excuse. What I am saying can't be changed - Cleveland, OH is not a baseball town. Just like St. Louis is. Or how Detroit loves its hockey. |
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 14:14:00 GMT -5
So you honestly think if their PR was better their attendance wouldn't be as bad? I just think that's another excuse. If it was better, could it help some? Sure. But does it raise it from below 20,000 to low 30,000s? It would have to have been better for the last decade, but yes. I'm sure if you polled most Cleveland area fans they have no ideas about dollar dog night's or any of the other promotional events they have. During the perfect storm of the late 90's they didn't have to market to fans. Now that they do, they don't know how. |
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 14:15:07 GMT -5
I don't think a baseball town would need dollar dogs to go to games.
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 14:16:10 GMT -5
It is a football town but the two teams only compete for customers a handful of times a year. The Browns host 8 meaningful games a year. Are you telling me that people that go to one game a year save all year for that and can't afford Indians games? Not buying it. Tommy you are in sales. You have to create customers and opportunities. The Indians fail in doing that. No, I'm not using money. I am saying that along with everything else is an excuse. What I am saying can't be changed - Cleveland, OH is not a baseball town. Just like St. Louis is. Or how Detroit loves its hockey. Are Cincinnati and Pittsburgh baseball or football towns? |
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 14:23:01 GMT -5
No, I'm not using money. I am saying that along with everything else is an excuse. What I am saying can't be changed - Cleveland, OH is not a baseball town. Just like St. Louis is. Or how Detroit loves its hockey. Are Cincinnati and Pittsburgh baseball or football towns? Pittsburgh is football for sure. Cincy probably leans more towards baseball. |
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 14:24:46 GMT -5
Look at what the Browns are doing right now involving fans. The Indians had a great idea with the social suite but horrible execution. You can't access their WiFi in their social media suite. And cell reception inside the Jake has long been an issue. What do three Browns do? Get with att&t and Verizon and add reception towers in the stadium. These things matter to casual fans.
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 14:28:25 GMT -5
Look at what the Browns are doing right now involving fans. The Indians had a great idea with the social suite but horrible execution. You can't access their WiFi in their social media suite. And cell reception inside the Jake has long been an issue. What do three Browns do? Get with att&t and Verizon and add reception towers in the stadium. These things matter to casual fans. The cell towers were a new idea brought on by brand new owners. You actually made my point for me there, the Browns have sucked in that area too over the last 13 years - it didn't matter. They could go 2-14 & have a shit stadium experience (which they did) and they still would be the buzz of the town. |
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 14:38:04 GMT -5
Look at what the Browns are doing right now involving fans. The Indians had a great idea with the social suite but horrible execution. You can't access their WiFi in their social media suite. And cell reception inside the Jake has long been an issue. What do three Browns do? Get with att&t and Verizon and add reception towers in the stadium. These things matter to casual fans. The cell towers were a new idea brought on by brand new owners. You actually made my point for me there, the Browns have sucked in that area too over the last 13 years - it didn't matter. They could go 2-14 & have a shit stadium experience (which they did) and they still would be the buzz of the town. Football has the game day experience that baseball can't compete with. Answer this, what do the Indians do that attracts casual fans? |
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 14:41:10 GMT -5
Bobbleheads, jersey shirts, dollar dogs, fireworks.
What should they do?
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 14:46:28 GMT -5
Bobbleheads, jersey shirts, dollar dogs, fireworks. What should they do? How do casual fans without Twitter know about these things? |
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 14:53:03 GMT -5
Bobbleheads, jersey shirts, dollar dogs, fireworks. What should they do? How do casual fans without Twitter know about these things? The Indians email me all the time with promotions. They also advertise - on the local radio, newspapers, websites & commercials during the games. What do you want from them? Random text messages? |
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 15:38:21 GMT -5
How do casual fans without Twitter know about these things? The Indians email me all the time with promotions. They also advertise - on the local radio, newspapers, websites & commercials during the games. What do you want from them? Random text messages? Has any of it excited you? I can't be the only one who sees this disconnect. |
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Post by BrownstotheBone on Jul 29, 2013 15:46:01 GMT -5
Francona is lying? That bastard. He tells me every day on the radio this is a Tribe town!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 22:04:57 GMT -5
I'm one of those Fans that Dolan et al has alienated....Omar...GONE, 2 Cy Young winners...GONE, Lousy trades. This past off season he spent money, but for WHAT?...3 every day Punch & Judy hitters who are streaky & strike out 100 times each & a pitcher who lost his velocity! We have obtained not ONE game changing player who strikes fear in opposing pitchers or hitters. Fans go to see difference makers & that's why attendance is down. This team can't play even with the better teams in the league. Dolan's a scam artist...His team ONLY does as well as it does because of Francona (the one addition he got right)...PERIOD!
Ol' "Sell 'em to Gilbert & I'll be back!" Dad
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 29, 2013 22:19:17 GMT -5
I'm one of those Fans that Dolan et al has alienated....Omar...GONE, 2 Cy Young winners...GONE, Lousy trades. This past off season he spent money, but for WHAT?...3 every day Punch & Judy hitters who are streaky & strike out 100 times each & a pitcher who lost his velocity! We have obtained not ONE game changing player who strikes fear in opposing pitchers or hitters. Fans go to see difference makers & that's why attendance is down. This team can't play even with the better teams in the league. Dolan's a scam artist...His team ONLY does as well as it does because of Francona (the one addition he got right)...PERIOD! Ol' "Sell 'em to Gilbert & I'll be back!" Dad Omar - old 2 Cy Young Winners - market can't afford Lousy trade - nothing to do with Dolan You are saying they had a poor offseason? Francona is the difference? Jesus, it's good this is a football town. Dolan is a scam artist? The Indians are a contender. They spent a lot of money this offseason. Why aren't you going to games Mike? Let me hear you excuses like your son. And every other fan. |
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 22:22:46 GMT -5
For the record, my Dad swore off the team years ago because of Dolan.
And sorry but Omar should've retired here. And tommy you don't hold Dolan accountable for moves? Come on. Shapiro sucked as a GM, he never got rid of him. He hasn't changed things up until just recently. It's not a well run organization Tommy. It just isn't.
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Post by Sigflanagan6 on Jul 29, 2013 22:24:45 GMT -5
And the year after the choked in the playoffs Dolan promised that if they hit a certain number in attendance he'd increase payroll. Guess what, they did and he cut payroll. There's been no vision.
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Post by TommyDee on Jul 30, 2013 7:38:29 GMT -5
For the record, my Dad swore off the team years ago because of Dolan. And sorry but Omar should've retired here. And tommy you don't hold Dolan accountable for moves? Come on. Shapiro sucked as a GM, he never got rid of him. He hasn't changed things up until just recently. It's not a well run organization Tommy. It just isn't. Shapiro lived off that one unfair trade with Montreal. I guess that bought him years. But you make a fair point that Dolan should have gotten rid of the Shapiro regime years ago. But I don't buy that this ballpark would be sold out under different ownership. What does anything matter besides the present and how they are contending right now? |
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